Posted inVideos

Going Back To The Source: Dismantling of Knowing {VIDEO Clip}

October 31, 2014

This is the 2nd short video clip (3:53) from the conversation between Stephen Batchelor and Henry Shukman, on June 4, 2014, at the Mountain Cloud Zen Center in Santa Fe, New Mexico on “Going Back to the Source.” 

UPDATE Nov 6, 2014: The full video (1:03:15) can be viewed on our YouTube channel.

Their dialogue covers : Eastern and Western thought, the great doubt, dismantling of knowing, ancient greeks and buddhism, zen and classical philosophy, seeing with clarity, humanist enlightenment in the west, roots of being human, Zen’s transitional phase, like mindedness, sharing an identity with everything that lives, and releasing our reactivity. In their view, we arrive at the single source from many paths.

This clip centers around “Dismantling of Knowing:”  

Below are some excerpts

Henry Shukman: … the word “awakening” … … there is a kind of shift that can happen in our consciousness. And what we might call, say, a moment of awakening, you know, a sudden glimpse of another, well, not really of anything; really not of anything.

{Master Kyogen} simply says in his verse commemorating the moment, he says, “I’ve forgotten everything I ever knew. I now don’t know anything,” basically. And I think he really means everything, you know, the whole world and all my views of it are gone. And even the “me” that I thought I knew is gone. So the—what would we call it?—the insight, the revelation, the epiphany is not into a new known.

It’s more a dismantling of knowing.

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Stephen Batchelor is a contemporary Buddhist teacher and writer, best known for his secular or agnostic approach to Buddhism. Stephen considers Buddhism to be a constantly evolving culture of awakening rather than a religious system based on immutable dogmas and beliefs. Click here for his Full BIO.

Henry Shukman is head teacher at Mountain Cloud Zen Center. Click here for his full BIO.

This video clip is from : Going Back to the Source : A conversation with Stephen Batchelor and Henry Shukman, Produced by Chris Hebard, Filmed by Luke Fitch (, copyright

This conversation, and the video, is presented by Stillness Speaks in association with Tricycle and Mountain Cloud Zen Center.

Full transcript of the conversation can be found at Tricycle by clicking here.

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